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	<title>Comments for Eyes Wide Open</title>
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	<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com</link>
	<description>One Pilgrim's Progress...</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Donald Miller offers closing prayer at Democratic Convention by Larre</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/donald-miller-offers-closing-prayer-at-democratic-convention/#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>Larre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 08:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/?p=142#comment-84</guid>
		<description>That was a thoughtful analysis and we share many of the same objections.

And here's my two cents which is twice the amount I'm usually offered for my thoughts.

First off, taken as a whole, I didn't get the impression that anything in this prayer was distinctively Christian.  I would suggest that he didn't say anything that Jews, Mormons, Unitarians and even someone from the Baha'i faith would disagree with.   I don't think any of these false systems would object to the God/Father connection or the Jesus he presented.  For that reason alone, he delivered a very fine universal prayer, but a very poor Christian prayer.

Second, I liked the shout-out for widows and orphans.  But given the context for their mention and even more importantly, the audience he was addressing, how about a shout-out for aborted babies?  That would have been a gutsy move.

Third, what would be the net result if God granted everything he asked for?  Wouldn't Earth have just been made a better place to go to Hell from?  Given his requests, would one additional soul be righteous before God?  Would God's glory meter have even twitched (there's a not to insignificant concept that was missing)?  Unfortunately, American evangelicalism is currently preoccupied with a gospel that does nothing more that make Earth a better place to go to Hell from.

Fourth, the heart issue you mentioned.  It's like he's saying, "Hey, if you could just cut us open and look at our hearts, you'd see what really good people we truly are!"  Yeah, right.  That goes against every Biblical description of the human condition.  It's interesting how if you get this wrong it tends to have a snowball effect on a bunch of other doctrines.

Fifth and finally, and as you say the "biggie" . . ..  He could have saved it at the end, but from my perspective, the mention of Jesus came off like an obligatory sprinkling of magic pixie dust.  He describes Jesus as "your son . . . who gave his own life against the forces of injustice"?  What Jesus is that?  That's not the Jesus of Christianity!  He's misrepresented Jesus as being a good life coach/moral example and not the Messiah, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.   

So, in summary, here's my math: no Christian distinctives + misrepresenting the human condition + misrepresenting who Jesus is + no mention of eternal good news + generally giving people a false hope that unity and good morals is God's desire = BAD PRAYER.

Hope I'm not being to harsh.  Miss you guys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a thoughtful analysis and we share many of the same objections.</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s my two cents which is twice the amount I&#8217;m usually offered for my thoughts.</p>
<p>First off, taken as a whole, I didn&#8217;t get the impression that anything in this prayer was distinctively Christian.  I would suggest that he didn&#8217;t say anything that Jews, Mormons, Unitarians and even someone from the Baha&#8217;i faith would disagree with.   I don&#8217;t think any of these false systems would object to the God/Father connection or the Jesus he presented.  For that reason alone, he delivered a very fine universal prayer, but a very poor Christian prayer.</p>
<p>Second, I liked the shout-out for widows and orphans.  But given the context for their mention and even more importantly, the audience he was addressing, how about a shout-out for aborted babies?  That would have been a gutsy move.</p>
<p>Third, what would be the net result if God granted everything he asked for?  Wouldn&#8217;t Earth have just been made a better place to go to Hell from?  Given his requests, would one additional soul be righteous before God?  Would God&#8217;s glory meter have even twitched (there&#8217;s a not to insignificant concept that was missing)?  Unfortunately, American evangelicalism is currently preoccupied with a gospel that does nothing more that make Earth a better place to go to Hell from.</p>
<p>Fourth, the heart issue you mentioned.  It&#8217;s like he&#8217;s saying, &#8220;Hey, if you could just cut us open and look at our hearts, you&#8217;d see what really good people we truly are!&#8221;  Yeah, right.  That goes against every Biblical description of the human condition.  It&#8217;s interesting how if you get this wrong it tends to have a snowball effect on a bunch of other doctrines.</p>
<p>Fifth and finally, and as you say the &#8220;biggie&#8221; . . ..  He could have saved it at the end, but from my perspective, the mention of Jesus came off like an obligatory sprinkling of magic pixie dust.  He describes Jesus as &#8220;your son . . . who gave his own life against the forces of injustice&#8221;?  What Jesus is that?  That&#8217;s not the Jesus of Christianity!  He&#8217;s misrepresented Jesus as being a good life coach/moral example and not the Messiah, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.   </p>
<p>So, in summary, here&#8217;s my math: no Christian distinctives + misrepresenting the human condition + misrepresenting who Jesus is + no mention of eternal good news + generally giving people a false hope that unity and good morals is God&#8217;s desire = BAD PRAYER.</p>
<p>Hope I&#8217;m not being to harsh.  Miss you guys.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Donald Miller offers closing prayer at Democratic Convention by Michael</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/donald-miller-offers-closing-prayer-at-democratic-convention/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 05:34:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/?p=142#comment-83</guid>
		<description>Now that’s a declarative. I hope you will offer further explanation as to why, in your view, this is a “very bad prayer.”

Here’s my 2 cents:

What I liked:
-His prayer included descriptive Christian phrases such as “Father God” and “in the name of Jesus.”
-He prayed for God concerning the lesser-thans (widows, orphans, children), all of which clearly sit near the heart of God.

What I didn’t like and/or left me scratching my head:
-He went partisan concerning health care, education, etc. As if a college-education is the deepest need of our young people? I think we both know there are much deeper needs: a relationship with Jesus, forgiveness and relationships restored where the fracture lines run deep, and an identity rooted in what Jesus has done on our behalf.
-”a lot of people don’t like us because they don’t know the heart of the average american…” Clearly some disagreement here with his what sits deep in the human heart…an “idol factory” says Calvin. Indeed.
-Then there’s the biggie, the closing:
“I make these requests in the name of your son, Jesus, who gave his own life against the forces of injustice. Let Him be our example.” Yes, Jesus faced injustices, and pressed on against injustices…but if He gave his life for anything having to do with injustice, it was the injustice of our betrayal. He gave his live as an atonement for our sin. Finally, Jesus is more than just our example….He is Lord (and King, and Shepherd, and Redeemer, and the list goes on…)

Miller left way too much on the table here when he had every opportunity to do otherwise. I also don’t think this is a complete picture of Miller’s view of atonement, so I would especially welcome an explanation from him on this. I do happen to believe Miller is a gifted writer and communicator, and I have read enough of his stuff to believe Him to be a devoted follower of Jesus. Yet, this is an Acts 2 moment, and I wasn’t cut to the heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that’s a declarative. I hope you will offer further explanation as to why, in your view, this is a “very bad prayer.”</p>
<p>Here’s my 2 cents:</p>
<p>What I liked:<br />
-His prayer included descriptive Christian phrases such as “Father God” and “in the name of Jesus.”<br />
-He prayed for God concerning the lesser-thans (widows, orphans, children), all of which clearly sit near the heart of God.</p>
<p>What I didn’t like and/or left me scratching my head:<br />
-He went partisan concerning health care, education, etc. As if a college-education is the deepest need of our young people? I think we both know there are much deeper needs: a relationship with Jesus, forgiveness and relationships restored where the fracture lines run deep, and an identity rooted in what Jesus has done on our behalf.<br />
-”a lot of people don’t like us because they don’t know the heart of the average american…” Clearly some disagreement here with his what sits deep in the human heart…an “idol factory” says Calvin. Indeed.<br />
-Then there’s the biggie, the closing:<br />
“I make these requests in the name of your son, Jesus, who gave his own life against the forces of injustice. Let Him be our example.” Yes, Jesus faced injustices, and pressed on against injustices…but if He gave his life for anything having to do with injustice, it was the injustice of our betrayal. He gave his live as an atonement for our sin. Finally, Jesus is more than just our example….He is Lord (and King, and Shepherd, and Redeemer, and the list goes on…)</p>
<p>Miller left way too much on the table here when he had every opportunity to do otherwise. I also don’t think this is a complete picture of Miller’s view of atonement, so I would especially welcome an explanation from him on this. I do happen to believe Miller is a gifted writer and communicator, and I have read enough of his stuff to believe Him to be a devoted follower of Jesus. Yet, this is an Acts 2 moment, and I wasn’t cut to the heart.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Donald Miller offers closing prayer at Democratic Convention by Larre</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/donald-miller-offers-closing-prayer-at-democratic-convention/#comment-80</link>
		<dc:creator>Larre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 03:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/?p=142#comment-80</guid>
		<description>Comments can be questions.  You never specified declaratives.

This is a very bad prayer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comments can be questions.  You never specified declaratives.</p>
<p>This is a very bad prayer.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Donald Miller offers closing prayer at Democratic Convention by Michael</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/donald-miller-offers-closing-prayer-at-democratic-convention/#comment-79</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 03:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/?p=142#comment-79</guid>
		<description>There is a reason this section is called "leave a comment" rather than "leave a question."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a reason this section is called &#8220;leave a comment&#8221; rather than &#8220;leave a question.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Donald Miller offers closing prayer at Democratic Convention by Larre</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/donald-miller-offers-closing-prayer-at-democratic-convention/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Larre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 01:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/?p=142#comment-78</guid>
		<description>Do you think this is a good prayer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think this is a good prayer?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mamma owes Mia! by Chuck</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/mamma-owes-mia/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/?p=137#comment-73</guid>
		<description>Michael...

I'd gladly join you to watch The Dark Knight. It's fantastic.

No arm waving or sing alongs are allowed whilst viewing a Batman film.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d gladly join you to watch The Dark Knight. It&#8217;s fantastic.</p>
<p>No arm waving or sing alongs are allowed whilst viewing a Batman film.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 1 year old and not a care in the world by Dan Morehead</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/1-year-old-and-not-a-care-in-the-world/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Morehead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 15:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/?p=118#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Great picture...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great picture&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on It is Finished! by riddle</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/it-is-finished/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>riddle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 19:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/it-is-finished/#comment-68</guid>
		<description>congratulations man!
so cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>congratulations man!<br />
so cool.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Celine Dion = &#8220;Am I getting old?&#8221; by Chuck</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/celine-dion-am-i-getting-old/#comment-66</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 16:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/celine-dion-am-i-getting-old/#comment-66</guid>
		<description>Oh Michael...we really need to have a talk. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh Michael&#8230;we really need to have a talk. <img src='http://eyeswideopenblog.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on Coming of Age by Forrest</title>
		<link>http://eyeswideopenblog.com/coming-of-age/#comment-64</link>
		<dc:creator>Forrest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eyeswideopenblog.com/coming-of-age/#comment-64</guid>
		<description>Homan,  
Thanks for putting your thoughts "out there."  I so appreciate your friendship (albeit @ a distance) and I am both comforted by your words and sorrowful for your loss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Homan,<br />
Thanks for putting your thoughts &#8220;out there.&#8221;  I so appreciate your friendship (albeit @ a distance) and I am both comforted by your words and sorrowful for your loss.</p>
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